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  1. #21
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    if you don't think there is overwhelming proof that global warming is happening and that human activities are affecting it, you have some big-ass blinders on.

    hello, have you noticed the hard scientific proof of EXPONENTIAL increases in atmospheric CO(2) that are linked with the beginning of the Industrial Revolution? i'm the first person to say that correllation doesn't equal causation, but the CO(2) increase simply cannot be explained by natural causes or cyclic global temperature changes.

    how about the *fact* that global CO(2) levels are tightly linked to global temperature cycles? that global temperatures have been going up on an exponential curve hand-in-hand with CO(2) levels?

    ETA: i just found this article on BBC news, it's interesting. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4748287.stm

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  3. #22
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    I will just quickly add to the excellent arguments above that in any area in which you discuss the science behind something there will never be absolute proof. Science proves nothing, all it can do, all it is designed to do, is draw the best available conclusions from the data. The more data you have that supports a theory the more you come to believe that the theory may be pretty close to reality. This is just anoth instance of the orwellian b*llsh*t of american culture, using the language of science incorrectly to discount conclusions you dont like. If you want someone to tell you they know what is TRUE then go to church, if you want conclusions based on fact and data and drawn without prejudice (to the best of the researchers ability) then look to science.

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexia
    But I'm still not very convinced that it is solely our CO2 that's causing global warming
    Fair enough. But it's indisputable that CO2 does lead to global warming. In fact, it always seemed to me that the burden of proof should be on the "global warming skeptics" to demonstrate what possible mechanism could allow the planet NOT to heat up despite dumping tons of CO2 into the atmosphere. Look, where's the heat going to go? The earth receives visible and near infra-red radiation from the sun, and by Wien's displacement law the earth radiates it back at a much longer wavelength--heat. The greenhouse gasses that we continue to pump into the atmosphere are transparent to visible light but opaque to thermal radiation. How the flaming @#$% could the planet stay cool?

    Haven't you ever been in a car in winter after it's been sitting in the sun? Pretty warm, huh?

    And by the way, Alaska has been seeing temps in the 80's over the past few days.

  5. #24
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    Oh, for further proof about greenhouse gases, look to the planet Venus. Whee.

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by starlita33
    Think about if this was your body. Imagine the doctors came up with this great pill. Suppose you start taking the pill, and you start getting really sick, throwing up everywhere and feeling like you wanted to die. Then, suppose the doctor says "There's absolutely nothing medically wrong with you." You would still quit taking the pill, right? Just because someone can't prove to you that there is a reason for what's happening, doesn't mean it's not happening.
    Exactly.

    I see a risk in ignoring our own contribution to global warming (because even if it is partly a natural cycle, we definitely are contributing to it), because it will make people go "oh, so this weather is only natural, that means I can keep on not caring about the environment around me".

    Whether or not the current climate change is natural, we're still fucking up the only place we can live in. Humans are pathetic creatures, aren't we?

    I also agree with what HeatherC said:
    I understand that this is a valid concern, but I don't agree with it at all. First of all, we impose our will all over the globe, and usually only if it will benefit us economically.
    As a non-American, I can assure you that many, many people resent the official American attitude of "USA vs the-rest-of-the-world-which-is-so-insignificant-and-should-have-no-say-in-global-issues". Reality check: USA isn't even the biggest country in the world, nor is it the most populated. It does, however, contribute in a major way to global environmental issues, through high energy consumption, pollution, etc.

    (I hope I don't offend any Americans - I know that the GetCrafty people are not like the stereotypical USAian, and generally don't share the official stance. I just had to vent, I guess.)

  7. #26
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    The thing is though, a lot of americans DON'T agree with our gov't "ruling the world."

    The problem is, while we have a democracy in theory, we really don't at all. Once someone is in office, they basically do whatever they want. The gov't does it's own thing regardless of us. Most people don't even know what's going on with our gov't, because they hide things. SOo it would be good to remember that it's not really the american people doing all that crap. Our gov't is doing a lot of it for us, and there's not really much we can do about it.
    I mean, ya, we can write our congress, and protest, But in the end, it really doesn't seem to change much of anything. I'm not saying it's pointless. But the president gets what they want one way or another.

  8. #27
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    Ah, but never underestimate the power of harnessing the media for your cause. For instance, imagine what seeing firehouses turned onto little children did for the apathetic during the civil rights era.

    We don't have a WHOLE LOTTA power, but that's partly because we believe that we can't do much to change things, and what's done can't be undone. So, while we could argue "global warming isnt' going to get fixed because of President Bush," we're missing the point completely that even FOX NEWS admitted some things might be global warming.

    You take the "might" in that sentence and run with it.

  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by JediEmpressMel
    SOo it would be good to remember that it's not really the american people doing all that crap. Our gov't is doing a lot of it for us, and there's not really much we can do about it.
    That's why I said it was the official attitude. I'm aware that many Americans don't share those views.

    Though it isn't so much the governments of the countries that fuck up the environment, it's all of us.

  10. #29
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    Just wanted to include this link to a recent article:


    Warming hits 'tipping point'
    Siberia feels the heat: It's a frozen peat bog the size of France and Germany combined, contains billions of tonnes of greenhouse gas and, for the first time since the ice age, it is melting....

    A vast expanse of western Sibera is undergoing an unprecedented thaw that could dramatically increase the rate of global warming, climate scientists warn today.

    Researchers who have recently returned from the region found that an area of permafrost spanning a million square kilometres - the size of France and Germany combined - has started to melt for the first time since it formed 11,000 years ago at the end of the last ice age....it will release billions of tonnes of methane, a greenhouse gas 20 times more potent than carbon dioxide, into the atmosphere.....

    The full article is here:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/internatio...546797,00.html

  11. #30
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    Great points, everyone.

    just want to clarify my position on all this: I never said there WASN'T global warming - I just said that there is the possibility of it being a natural phenomenon. And Yes, our energy use isn't making it any better, in fact it may be speeding up the natural phenomenon...

    So, with that, here's another article that highlights what's going on.

    :)


 
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