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  1. #1
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    Global Warming - an honest discussion

    I am putting this out there because I honestly want some facts. It seems that the environment is taking a backseat to political agendas and the truth is being hidden.

    What are the facts? Is global warming really happening? Is it just the "natural course of things" or are we making it happen? If we are contributing to it, how? If we stopped all mechanized transportation, would we still be contributing to it simply because we exist on this planet?
    What is the truth here??

    We have people like Robert Kennedy blaming Bush for the hurricane because he didn't sign the Kyoto treaty. How ridiculous is that? It wouldn't have happened because a piece of paper was signed? And RFK's uncle, Ted voted against it - like 90% of the Senate. Also, China and India were left out of that treaty. China is estimated to be the largest industrial polluter within a decade.

    So conservatives think the liberals are going too far (mostly because of comments like RFK's) and liberals think conservatives don't care enough. And BOTH are spinning the facts to suit there own political agenda.

    What is the TRUTH? Can we have a discussion with facts, not ideological passion?

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  3. #2
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    No one outside of the United States debates global warming. It is accepted fact.

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marina-Trilobyte
    No one outside of the United States debates global warming. It is accepted fact.
    maybe it's just me, but I have a hard time seeing this comment as constructive or helpful - merely snarky.

    julieflomom is asking for some honest-to-goodness research & facts, not flippant off-hand comments.

    julieflomom: i am with you on this one - i may not be very well-liked on the board because of my previous discussion of global warming, but i remain agnostic on this one. If I find anything that helps, i'll be sure to post it here.

  5. #4
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    I was about to google this topic, then realised we could all do that. To be honest, I don't know 'the facts'.

    I do however have opinions based on the little I do know. Which makes me ask - sorry, veering O/T - why we trust some sources and not others and take in some information but not other bits and where other people source their 'facts' from (maybe should start other thread?). I hate reading stuff in the newspaper and making an opinion about it, and then a couple of days later reading how the reporter got the press release all wrong etc. (esp. happens with science reporting) and what the 'real' figures were. Makes me feel hopeless about being able to base my opinions on anything.

    I read all through the SUV thread with interest, but didn't post anything. Partly because there were too many facets to the arguments to be able to work out what to comment on, but partly because the ideological angle to the discussion challenged my presumptions on issues, which I had theretofore assumed were fact-based, but realised were assumption-laden and very me-centric (in that I don't drive an SUV so it's easy for me to criticise it). Leaving me a little confused...

    Confused, but also challenging my own ideas and forming more considered ones, so ideological-shrouded discussions are good in that sense.

    I think the facts are elusive. I'm not sure there are any indubitable facts. And of course, it's so hard to separate them from how they are presented (which can't, I suggest, be entirely without bias?).

    But I do think trying to equip oneself as best as possible with information from as many varied sources as possible has got to be the basis of arguments (which can then hone that information, and help beat un-thought-out bias away from it) so I applaud your call for facts...

    Just sorry I can't help with the hard science...

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexia
    Quote Originally Posted by Marina-Trilobyte
    No one outside of the United States debates global warming. It is accepted fact.
    maybe it's just me, but I have a hard time seeing this comment as constructive or helpful - merely snarky.
    I'm not sure what you're looking for. It's a fact that the rest of the world considers our debate over global warming to be an absurd refusal to face reality.

    I could say that the rest of the world applauds our strong-mindedness and bold insistence on going our own way on this issue. But it wouldn't be true.

  7. #6
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    "An absurd refusal to face facts"

    OK - what are those facts?

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marina-Trilobyte
    I'm not sure what you're looking for. It's a fact that the rest of the world considers our debate over global warming to be an absurd refusal to face reality.

    I could say that the rest of the world applauds our strong-mindedness and bold insistence on going our own way on this issue. But it wouldn't be true.
    In no way was I requesting sugar-coated pleasantries. You say it's an undisputed fact outside the US - so give the facts, that's all. Give your resources, books, articles, instead of these glib remarks. It's that simple.

    And I will respectfully bow out of further discussion in this thread...

  9. #8
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    Here are some links that are worth looking at:

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...l_warming.html

    www.globalwarming.org

    I think we are so used to viewing this topic through our political filters that we don't open ourselves up to all the facts.

    And may I just add, a little faith couldn't hurt right about now. I believe that we are in the hands of a loving God who is in control of this universe, including Earth. It's not all about us and what we do or don't do...

  10. #9
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    [quote="alexia"]
    Quote Originally Posted by Marina-Trilobyte

    In no way was I requesting sugar-coated pleasantries. You say it's an undisputed fact outside the US - so give the facts, that's all. Give your resources, books, articles, instead of these glib remarks. It's that simple.
    A good start would be looking at the Wikipedia entry on global warming,

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming

    Key points I would note include,

    The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (an UN affiliated organization with a wide international membership) and the national science academies of the G8 nations nations (Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the United Kingdom, the United States of America and Russia) are in agreement as to the reality of global warming. That's a very wide range of people and bodies to be in agreement on something.

    A majority scientific opinion *can* be wrong, but in the face of overwhelming agreement, it is the responsibility of the minority to prove they have a case. Saying, "The United States needs to be autonomous!" is not a case.

    Causes,

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_...global_warming

    Climate models,

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_...Climate_models

    Dissenters,

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_...ming-skeptical

    The main dissenters listed as disagreeing with the theory of global warming are respectively an private individual trained as an economist, an institute that receives funding from the petroleum industry, a private individual who is a board member of that institute and another institute that has board member overlap with that institute and lists deceased "advisor scientists".

  11. #10
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    Thank you! These are great.

    Of course, most of the environmental groups listed have their own political connections as well and depends on funding from certain liberal organizations.

    One day I will have to explain to my little girl that if she is ever confused about something she should just follow the money. Therein lies the answer to most questions.


 
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