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Thread: Fahrenheit 9/11

  1. #21
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    I finally saw it last Friday, and I was really impressed with it. That says a lot, seeing how I had made up my mind to be objective (ha ha ha! so much for that).

    Anyway, what I found most disturbing that I wasn't surprised by some of the terrible things in it. I sort of thought, "Oh, so the Bushes and Bin Ladens are close contacts? Hmm. Go figure."

    It's very weird. We can't take another four years of that.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by soapandwater
    He's done other stuff like that, I'm sure, but I'm not educated enough in politics or research to back that up. And he relies on a lot of us to be uneducated/too lazy to go find out things on our own, and that lets him have more power over say someone like me. That sort of stuff scares me: not because he craftily edits things to his liking but that I wouldn't know what to trust because I'm too lazy/ignorant to find out the facts on my own.
    I think that's exactly the point, and I'm glad you are aware of it.

    Up front, I do not mean this as a direct attack on you at all. I'm saying "you" in the following paragraph as a general "you" not you personally. Americans in general are way too complacent and that's how come the election snafu happened, how come this war is going on...and a whole bunch of other bad stuff.

    Think about how much MORE power and influence the conservative majority has had in this country for years, than someone like Michael Moore. How much have you worried about what they've put into your mind? How seriously have you considered all the ballot issues (or even voting in local elections)? How much have you really investigated the backgrounds and platforms of the people that run your town/county/state/province/whatever? How lazy have you been to investigate whether all the things in the "regular" media are the whole truth? Etc.

    The great thing about Michael Moore's body of work is it awakens us to the fact that we need to be more involved, plain and simple. Instead of reacting to what our corrupt administration (or potentially dishonest liberal media purveyors) hand us, we need to pay attention while things happen.


    Lately I've been feeling really guilty for being one of those complacent Americans. I feel ridiculously powerless sometimes to make even the most minor of changes. Then I saw this movie and while none of it was surprising it made me cry so much. My mom grew up in Flint and I've been there so many times...it really is awful there. But that is nothing compared to all the dead soldiers and innocent Iraqis.

    And I'm also extremely angry. I am so mad at people who put on a veneer of Christianity while carrying on mass destruction of humanity in the name of money. It's such a gigantic contradiction!

    Argh.

  4. #23
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    I totally agree with you. Obviously, I don't like this complacency in myself, and I'm not so sure I can stand for it any longer really.

    You know, I was very "I'll just pick my battles," but lately it's becoming one big battle, and knowing the facts is hard.

    So, as mad as I can get at Michael Moore for skewing the facts some, I know that he's still done way more research than I have and that the other side skews the facts a LOT.

    It's like America is too lazy to exercise and to think.

  5. #24
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    i've been thinking a lot lately about the whole 'picking my battles' thing. and there are battles everywhere, from what/where i eat, what i wear, what i say, etc etc. and i'm just getting a little tired of it all.

    tired of having to explain my every opinion in regards to everything i do. but also tired of what happens when i stop becoming vigilant in my choices. complacency sets in, and that's a whole nother evil.

    i applaud michael moore for what he has done to make people aware of what might be going on while they're looking the other way/hoping it's not all true/keeping their fingers crossed. his show the awful truth (i think that's what it was called?) was brilliant for making people open their eyes.

    i just get scared when people stop short of investigating the issues themselves. however, i'm not sure how to get around this other than to handout fliers 'for further reading' regarding a host of issues left and right.

    in a perfect world, we would all have enough time to read several sources of news and still continue with our lives. i just get a little twitchy whenever one person/film/book, etc etc is hailed as great. not that i want to rain on their parade, it's just that i want people to realize that there is so much farther to be dug.

    i'm currently researching my dissertation and have been overwhelmed with literature. all this influx of stuff about the war/moore/bush, etc etc has made me feel even more behind and clueless because there's just a mountain of information coming in from everywhere. but like my supervisor reminded me, 'you will never think you have read enough.'

    this is where moore fits in perfectly because he is allowing a different perspective to be seen, and when i finally unearth myself from research i hope f 9/11 will be a sight for my sore over-read eyes.

    x

  6. #25
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    I loved, loved, LOVED this movie!

    Moore mainly stuck to provable, documented facts, which makes it harder for his detractors to argue to much about the truthfulness of the film.

    I have really been struck by how many conservatives automatically think that this movie is anti-American, anti-military, etc. (without seeing it) when in fact it was so much the opposite. Michael Moore obviously loves his country and supports the troops, and that adds fuel to his anger at the Bush administration.

  7. #26
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    I saw it on the 4th of July--it sold out all day at the theater in downtown Portland, so we got tickets for a later show. I thought it was awesome. My theater was full and people really got into it. There was loud applause at the end, which was so cool!

    What really struck me was the crazy footage of Bush sitting there clutching a children's book while the buildings burned--unbelievable. And the military recruiters in the parking lot! They're like sharks circling those kids--like the one they asked for info from so they could "cross him off the list."

    And I just felt for Lila Lipscomb. She was amazing, and I hope she feels some peace. I keep thinking of her.

    It was so good, and so completely disturbing and vivid... the most intense movie I've just about ever seen.

  8. #27
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    I really enjoyed the movie. I was aware that the editing was going to be iffy, but even so: even if the images are not being presented in a linear timeline, Bush still contradicts himself an awful lot.
    I just left the movie with despair, and both me and the boy had a hard time sleeping. I left with the feeling that Bush could not care less about the American people, the presidency has just been a smart career move to line his pocketbook. Bush quotes (near as I can recall):
    "Some call you the have-mores. I call you my base." -Bush, at a fundraising dinner with presumably wealthy attendants
    "Well, Dictatorship would be a hell of a lot easier" -Bush
    I won;t give the last quote of the movie away- but it's classic!
    small hijack- soapandwater- while the Dixie Chicks song does have spousal abuse as an underlying theme, it does still present killing someone as a solution. My Mom loves that song, and it is catchy and fun, but just because there is justification, I really don't see how it is better than gangster rap. I am just a big believer in the power of the media though. It is amazing how prevalent topics are in the media that we are not even aware of being bombarded by. Someone close to me was affected by infidelity. After seeing her anguish, it was amazing how many movies, books, songs, TV shows deal with a man being unfaithful. It did not really affect me before, but I was more aware of it since it made me sick to my stomach and I would have to change channels. I am just saying that these messages from the media do affect how we see things in the world. I think Michael Moore just wants people to be aware of that, and not just assume that the music they are listening to is 'safe' from these messages. Sorry to hijack, I just truly believe most people are unaware of the messages that the media feeds us, and the fact that even if you know better, it does play a part in shaping your view of the world.

  9. #28
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    I know I'm in the minority, but I hated the movie. At first I didn't want to see the movie, I thought that it was going to be 2 hours of MM preaching to the chior at what a horrble person and president Bush is. Then I saw the 60 minutes interview with MM and saw/heard what people were saying about the movie and how it was so moving. I decided to go see it. I didn't learn anything new. Everything that was in the movie I had already heard. I didn't cry a single time, and yes I feel very very sorry for Mrs. Lipscomb and her family. I'd be extremely pissed if my son died for a war that was based on lies. I just feel like the movie turned out to be 2 hours of MM trying too hard to make Bush out to be a sh*thead. Of course when Marines are trying to recruit new members they are going to tell them how great it is--money for college, get to see the world, great retirement. They don't mention the fact that you might get shipped off to war and get a bullet in the head. The last time you were at a job interview did they tell you that your boss was a troll or that you were going to doing the job of three people? No, they tell you how wonderful the company is, vacation, medical/dental, stock options..... Everyone seems to be surprised that Haliburton and other companies were making money off of the war. *gasp* a large company trying to make money. I can't really think of a large company out there that isn't all about their bottom line. Maybe I just haven't met the right company. The CEO of Haliburton would probably sell his own Mother to the Iraqi's if he thought it would increase his stocks by 1/2 a point. I'm all for Bush bashing, but I just personally didn't find the movie all that great.

  10. #29
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    People have had to fight to get it played in Jackson, Mississippi

    http://www.jacksonfreepress.com/more...=3220_0_27_0_M


    I haven't seen it yet, but I realy want to.

  11. #30
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    I literally just got back home from seeing this movie.

    Let me say at the outset that I think it's a big mistake to judge Michael Moore's films for their objective facts or journalistic credibility: he's definitely NOT a journalist, nor does he pretend to be one. He is a rabble-rouser.

    I LOVED the second half of this film - his way of bringing the issues down to street-level - how big-money politics/war-mongering affects average Americans, like the unemployed youth in Flint being hit up by cynical military recruiters, the heart-rending Lila Lipscombe sequences, the individual comments of soldiers in Iraq...that as I see it is always Michael Moore's strongest suit: championing the powerless.

    But to tell the truth, I think he's got problems with formulating larger theories. For me, the entire first half of the movie was pretty much incoherent. Sure, he brought up lots of facts that people need to be reminded of (Bush-oil money ties, "rigging" of the 2000 election, the media as lapdogs, etc etc etc.) but in this film I think he completely failed to tie all these disparate facts together. What was the point of all the stuff about the Bushes and the Bin Ladens? Did anyone get this? So the Saudi royal family has lots of money invested in US companies...What does this have to do with 9-11, or us invading Iraq? It sort of stank of attempted character assassination by association to me (Bush II is friends with Bin Ladins and Bin Ladins are related to Osama, therefore Bush is not to be trusted). Am I completely missing something?


 
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