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  1. #71
    Senior Member
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    Jul 2005
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    I live where I have family close by so my kids can build relationships with them, and where I can afford to live.

    Maybe one day, I'll be able to pick and choose where I live, but I don't think that day is coming any time soon.

    I do my best with the resources available to me.

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  3. #72
    Senior Member
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    Apr 2004
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    sittin' on the dock of the bay
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    I don't think delqc was necessarily judging the values of everyone who lives in suburbia. When she talked about "boycotting suburbia culture" I think she may have been talking more about personal actions she can take to resist the kinds of unsustainable urban planning strategies that have, over the last few decades, forced people into having to make really horrible choices between their family's immediate needs and the long-term needs of the planet.

    Again, I may just be trying to rationalize my own suburban life! But I didn't read her comments as a direct attack on me or my values, more on the social circumstances in which I'm making my choices.

  4. #73
    Senior Member
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    Apr 2004
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    Northern California
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    maybe i was just reading it too extremely. i was seeing it as a value judgment against the culture of people who live in suburbia. it won't be the first time i have misread something on the internet, for sure.

    i guess the thing for me is, i don't think criticizing people for their choices (living in suburbia, driving a car) is the answer. i think congratulating people for the choices they DO make that will help the earth is more appropriate.

    to me, it's like taking someone who eats fast food every day and is trying to improve their diet and saying, "well, you can't afford to buy organic produce anyways, so why bother?" instead of "good job! buying food at Safeway instead of McDonalds is great!"

    people don't get motivated by shaming ("you live in a suburb, so you are responsible for deforestation") they get motivated by encouragement ("you participate in your suburb's recycling program, and take the bus to work once a week! good job!")

    but then, i am taking this whole idea to more of a public health level than a personal level. which maybe i shouldn't do.

  5. #74
    Senior Member
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    Oct 2004
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    Canada
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    719
    Stella, I'm sorry that you feel judged by my comments. I was explaining why I, personally, boycott Costco, and that it has nothing to do with what policial organizations Costco donates money to.

    I do think that the actions (or inactions) that individuals choose have a moral value, and can be evaluated as such. I also understand that individuals have to choose from within the options that are available to them, and that often none of those options are ideal and many are difficult.

    I am not saying that everyone who lives in surburbia is an inherently bad person, but I am saying that the surburban sprawl as a human settlement plan is unsustainable and a poor choice, and I choose to boycott that by not supporting businesses that profit from, encourage, or otherwise participate in surburban sprawl and car culture. I have other options available to me which I believe are less damaging. Others might support the same businesses that I boycott, because from within their context those buisnesses are the lesser evil, and that's perfectly ok.

  6. #75
    Senior Member
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    Oct 2004
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    Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by xuli
    ... But I didn't read her comments as a direct attack on me or my values, more on the social circumstances in which I'm making my choices.
    Yes. This is it, precisely.

    Once again, xuli beats me in articulate-ness!

  7. #76
    Senior Member
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    Feb 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    822
    I avoid Walmart like the plague. Can't stand the store!
    K-mart I'll go to if I'm absolutely desperate, but they treat their employees like dirt.
    So that leaves me with Target, which I love.
    The grocery store (Wegmans)where I work has certainly nudged smaller mom and pop stores out, along w/ urban sprawl. But they do a lot for the community and their employees, were started in this city and are still a family owned and run business.
    I also avoid malls like the plague. I don't have the time, money or patience to wander around dodging people trying to get to what I need.
    There's really not much in the way of decent mom and Pop stores in my urban neighborhood. Everything they sell is way overpriced. I can go to Wegmans, shop for the week, and save money for the 10 minute drive it takes to get there. Not to mention being able to buy certain things in bulk, like paper goods that are not overpackaged. A gallon of milk can cost over a dollar less at wegmans than at the mom and pop stores. Once I went to a mom and pop store, and they were charging $4 for a gallon of milk!! I think not!
    That's all I got. I don't necessarily boycott places, just avoid them. I'm recovering from illness and haven't exactly had the fortitude to research company's practices.

  8. #77
    Junior Member
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    Jun 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
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    19
    From watching this forum, I think its safe to say that its highly impractical to boycott every business, including the housing industry, that has questionable practices.

    As far as Suburbia goes, I too believe that suburban sprawl contributes to the destruction of local ecologies. However, I think the destruction can be minimized by things like group housing and intentional communities.

    I also think that shopping at a big box store or a Walmart can be balanced out by donating money the money you save to your favorite charity.

    There are many paths to building the world of your choice, but each one requires a sacrifice of some kind. Living an urban lifestyle comes with sacrificing a big backyard for the stray puppies you take in. Shopping at only independent grocery stores comes with sacrificing money for other things, like a solar powered battery charger or a Prius. Living on a farm in the middle of nowhere comes with sacrificing crude oil reserves for the gas you need to get to the store.

    I could keep listing choices and sacrifices, but my point is: an individual has to decide whats best for hirself without judging others about their decisions.

  9. #78
    Member
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    Aug 2005
    Location
    Stayton OR
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    92
    Quote Originally Posted by delqc
    I know lots of people prefer surburbia, and choose it because they prefer it without considering the environmental cost. Lots of people prefer SUVs, too. And while I awknowledge that SOMETIMES living in more urban environments SEEMS like more expensive for what you get (a flat vs. a whole house and backyard) the environmental costs of surburbia to everyone are not factored into that equation.
    Bigotry takes some odd forms doesn't it?

    Here's some math
    City commute to my job: 28 miles
    Suburban commute: about 4 feet from my kitchen door

    Rent for 2 bedroom apt: $650
    Mortgage for 2 bedroom house w/shop: $416

    Grocery bill in city: $290 (2 people, one month)
    Grocery bill now: $280-$300 (4 people, one month)

    Gas? I don't drive, I carpool rarely and walk or ride a bike when possible (which is most of the time.) Not everyone in the suburbs is rich, my family lives clearly below the poverty level without public assistance (not that we don't qualify but we just don't need it so we don't take it)

    Most of our neighbors are in similar financial circumstances, I see far fewer SUVs out here than I did in the city. I have more garden and more trees than lawn, my house is only a 2 bedroom instead of the 3 that it could be because I don't want to move or cut down the tree that currently occupies the space, and I'm some sort of monster because of where I live? That's a pickle.

  10. #79
    Senior Member
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    Apr 2004
    Location
    Wisconsin
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    1,563
    Chromegrrrl, I like calling Delcq a bigot is really harsh - she is not talking about you or any individual people living in suburbia, but the broad scope of what suburbia is and does.

  11. #80
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    atlanta ga
    Posts
    433
    hey you guys!!!

    earlier this week, in the wake of the whole liquid bomb plot on planes, etc., etc., I read/ heard on NPR that some of the money that had been donated to help with the earthquake relief in Pakistan had been used to help finance the whole liquid bomb thing!!! AAAAAHHHH. this SCARES me...so now, i have decided to boycott BIG charity organizations and stick to my locals, so that way i know where my money is going.

    BTW - people need to live somewhere. the whole point of this thread was to discuss what you boycott, in terms of businesses and what you do or do not believe in. I am glad I started this thread, because i knew you all would teach me some things I did not know. however, i am sorry to tell you that the pants i am wearing were bought at either kohls, target or old navy and yes, they were made in vietnam. The bag that i am carrying is a Coach Bag, made in China. The computer that I am using was made in Japan. see what I am saying?

    the only way to avoid, really avoid contributing to the destruction of the environment, to avoid participating in the exploitation of workers, is to be independently wealthy, and to become a farmer and live off of the land, or maybe just be a hermit and live in the middle of nowhere, and be totally self sufficient.

    i've done it, and it really isn't so bad. you would be amazed at what you don't miss when it is not readily available to you. i boycott things/businesses for my own personal beliefs, and if it should help to change things .1%, that's great.


 
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