Posted by Anonymous on 2005-12-30 20:43:24
Post Subject:
I haven't read it and I think your opinion of it might depend on your politics. Check out her bio on wikipedia and see if it's your bag:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kate_O'Beirne
I see that this isn't her first anti-feminist book. Hmm.
Posted by delqc on 2005-08-01 15:41:15
Post Subject: Michaels & Buy Blue
Hey,
I was just doign some reading on http://www.buyblue.org (actually inspired by the Bust thread and the comment on Urban Outfitters anti-feminist politics, which google knew nothing about - but I digress).
Did you know that:
Michaels Stores currently has a 0% BuyBlue rating due to political contributions for the 2003-2004 election cycle. Michael's executives contributed a mind numbing $424,406 during the last election, solely to Republican politicians. Michael's does not have a political action committee.
I know a lot of you Americans out there shop at Michaels, and I thought this might interest you, no matter what your political orientation.
Posted by MlleEmily on 2004-08-21 03:50:16
Post Subject:
1. how did you learn to knit? how old were you then and old are you now?
My mother taught me when I was about ten years old.
2. knitting = nesting? is your knitting a way of getting back to simpler times?
It's very relaxing, I'll say that much... I'm not one for thinking that the so-called 'simpler times' were actually much simpler, or better in a lot of ways. I think that's a pretty romantic view, a myth that politicians are always keen on trotting out when they want to et more conservative.
3. in regards to the current resurgence in knitting, when do you think it started and why?
I was going to say this current world conflict thing making everyone want to stay indoors and do homey, crafty stuff... but the knitting resurgence occured before all that. People do seem to want the satisfaction of making something unique, in a kind of backlash to mass-produced consumer goods. Nothing you can buy seems really all that special when you see someone else wearing it on the bus... and the fact that something can be bought by anyone with the money makes it consequently less exclusive and appealing... the very thing a lot of mass-produced goods claim to be (ie labels, brands). It's like all the stores push this idea of exclusivity and how wonderful it is to have unique items... and then these very stores can't deliver on that promise, so people perhaps are trying to get the uniqueness that's been so exalted the only way they can... by creating something new themselves.
4. do you have a crafty group that you meet with? how often? why do you dig it?
I have been to a Meetup for knitting three times, and really like it. I go because I'm a knitting obsessive and talk about it with a vehemence that's very dificult for non-knitters to tolerate.
5. where do you go online to discuss/learn/share your craftiness? how do these sites inspire you in ways that real life conversations don't?
I go to supernaturale.com, crafster.org, and this site. I think being able to view a lot of different patterns and finished projects from people from very disparate geographical locations is cool-- it makes me feel connected to a larger knitting community, however illusory this may actually be.
6. is there a subversive element to knitting? a punk rock element? or simply a DIY smugness?
No. Are you kidding? This sort of talk's actually been pissing me off lately. The political status quo ain't changing 'cos you knitted something. That requires just a little more effort. There are those who'll tell you knitting is some sort of feminist act too, which is ludicrous. It's not feminist or anti-feminist- it's just bloody knitting!
There's a lot of talk among third wavers about the misguided second-wave feminists who bashed stay-at-home moms and homemakers, and I really just do not think that was ever the case. If anything, Betty Freidan at al were more about telling people to appreciate what women did and NOT dismiss it as mere 'women's (ie worthless) work'. They were never about the denigration of housework per se, just that it shouldn't just fall to women to take care of what is really very hard work and that women ought to be allowed to have equal say in political life and economic outside the domestic realm. The third-wavers attack on second-wavers on this particular point is completely unfounded.
But I digress...
Maybe knitting can be personally transforming, in that you learn to appreciate things in a more non-commercial way... although even that's suspect, given most people have to buy their wool at a store and there's a whole element of fibre snobbery. I'd go with the DIY smugness theory before I'd
say the other two.
7. why do you knit?
It's super fun! I love having made something myself! People tell me I'm clever (or tell me I must have too much time on my hands, nasties!). It's also a good way to watch a lot of television without feeling guilty- hey, as long as I'm knitting something, that's DOING something, so the guilt of spending six hours straight watching the Six Feet Under DVD set is assuaged. And it's just so relaxing and zen.
8. what other crafty things do you do besides knitting?
I love to sew my own clothes, fabric collage, decoupage, basically anything creative. I a bit of crochet too.
9. the future of knitting- is there one or are we just kidding ourselves?
Well, I don't think anyone will stop knitting... as far as craft fads go it will ebb and flow with the mainstream but people will always knit I think. I think it's relative simplicity augurs well for it's continuing practise, whereas some trraditional hand crafts have disappeared almost completely (I'm thinking of certain types of lacemaking, and embroideruie and passementerie) because they really require some pretty hard-core learning to be done well.
10. do you prefer to knit alone or with other people? why?
I can do either. Knitting in a group is fun more for the chatting about knitting and getting tips and seeing averyone elses project than actually getting much done!
11. true or false: can craft save us all? (elaboration here would be nice, but not necessary.)
Only Jesus can save us all... just kidding. But a critical look at consumerism and mass-production wouldn't do anybody any harm... although as I've said, hand-made stuff can be a source of just more competitiveness and snobbery, if you're that kinda person.
Posted by anthrogirl on 2006-01-04 17:58:04
Post Subject: Thanks muchly!
Thanks muchly. I simply am who I am. In high school one of my friends was the daughter of a college professor and a former research scientist. Mom had given up doing tests on bunnies to become a belly dancer. Dad collected old junk and restored them to their antique state. Their house was beautiful. They had a swing for the parents and three kids in the basement. My mother felt they were scandalous- she and my dad had once been a party where this woman had danced professionally. It was one thing to ogle a belly dancer or take lessons for exercize, but what kind of woman actually gave up a CAREER to become a professional?
I still think they were some of the most alive and ethical people I'd ever met. Ditto my mom's outrageous friend Kitty, who worked as a barmaid and wore Pucci-inspired clothing and had a major wig collection. I always found that the women who lived on the borders were the most entertaining.
I understand about creativity. I only view myself as being semi-domestic. I hate cleaning. I just like the creative part. But people assume I want to be some latter-day housewife, which I don't. I once told a friend that I wanted to stay home, make crafts, and cook all day, and maybe wear pearls while vacuuming- he thought I'd become anti-feminist. Nope. I just wanted to be an artist and dress in a way that would make a commentary on people's assumptions about women who work from home.
Posted by fishfeet on 2005-02-01 13:28:43
Post Subject: Feminist knitters
Great topic for discussion. I myself am a relatively new knitter, but have crocheted for years. I think it is interesting that you bring up the relationship between knitting (and crafting in general) and feminism. Many of the "younger generation" knitting books address this phenomenom and refer to reclaiming knitting from being considered an anti feminist activity. I think it is also important to reclaim the word feminist, because I know many women (and men) who feel it has a negative conotation. Personally I define feminism as equality between the sexes, both economically and socially. To answer the rest of your questions:
What role does knitting play in a women's life?
- I think that knitting plays the role that any other hobby plays in peoples lives. It is something that interests them, gives them joy, it is a outlet of creativity and allows them to connect with others who enjoy the same activity.
Do most girls today take up knitting with the SnB mentality?
-I don't necessarily believe that girls take up knitting with the idea that it is a feminist thing to do, however I can't speak for most girls so I don't know what their motives are. For myself, as a relatively new knitter and a feminist, I did not take up knitting in order to reclaim the knitting as a feminist activity, I just like to do it.
Why does knitting have such a cult following?
- I definately think that the number of knitters has increased recently. There are many new yarn stores popping up, new books and magazines about the subject, etc. I don't know the exact reason, but I think that our societies wants and needs are cyclical. For example, after years of pre-packaged, preservative laden foods, people are starting to shift back to fresh, organic ingredients, and making their own food from scratch. I think the same is true with hobbies and crafts, people are knitting in order to find a way to cope with the rush rush lifestyle that everyone has grown accustomed to. I don't really know if this answers the question, but it is the only way I know how to explain it.
Why did I start knitting?
I actually learned to knit during a year I spent in a program called Americorps. For 10 months I was working with a group of other people on different volunteer projects. We traveled around the country and our accommodations were sparse. We didn't usually have a tv, and we didn't have access to a vehicle all of the time. In order to pass what little down time we did have many of the people in the program learned to knit and crochet. At the time it was a relatively inexpensive and portable hobby. During that time, I spent more time crocheting, mainly because it was easier for me (my mom had taught me years ago) but I just recently started knitting because of the versatility of the items you can create.
Do I identify as a feminist?
-yes
What does knitting do for me?
-I just really enjoy working with yarn and fibers, as well as the rhythmic motions of knitting and crocheting. It is relaxing as well as a way to do or make something. As a business student, I have very little opportunity throughout my day to actually make something with my hands, knitting gives me an outlet to do this.
Thanks for the discussion, and good luck on your thesis. I hope you get some valuable information that will assist in writing it.
Posted by sallysunshine on 2004-12-15 14:19:56
Post Subject:
Honest question: is it really that important that crafty and/or domestic feminists differentiate ourselves from those retrograde, anti-feminist crafty and/or domestic women? What if we see our shared interests as a tool for solidarity or evangelism, rather than as a source of shame for us?
Posted by kindarana on 2004-11-01 19:59:41
Post Subject:
The Independent Women's Forum is I think what I was searching for. Their idea of women's freedom is basically freedom from taxation... see http://www.iwf.org/specialreports/specrpt_detail.asp?ArticleID=687 for more about that. Sites calling them anti-feminist:
http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Independent_Women's_Forum
http://www.mediatransparency.org/recipients/iwf.htm
There's also The Surrendered Wife, whose author says the best way for women to take care of themselves is to avoid divorce by letting their husbands walk all over them. But I'm not exactly stating her case the way she'd like...
Posted by Katrin on 2004-11-02 01:17:37
Post Subject:
I feel like quoting Debbie Stoller because once again, she's said it best.
In Stitch 'N Bitch, she writes about some of her friends responding with disbelief and disdain when she told them she'd taken up knitting. She knew that if she'd gotten into soccer or carpentry they'd have approved - because it's "feminist" for a woman to do a traditionally male activity. But because knitting was a traditionally female hobby, it was still looked down upon.
It made her realize that the people who reacted that way were actually being anti-feminist by believing the only worthwhile activities were ones usually done by men.
It's still considered appropriate to encourage girls to pursue things like sports and science, but it's somehow not OK to teach boys needlework. That sends the message - to everyone - that "traditionally female" activities are inferior and less important, and so are the people who do them.
Do you eat food and wear clothes? Then you should know how to cook a meal and make at least basic clothing repairs. Do you drive a car and spend money? Then you should be able to do basic auto maintenance and manage your personal finances. Live somewhere? Know how to keep your place clean and have stuff in working order. No one's insisting you be a gourmet cook, fashion designer, expert mechanic, financial wizard or home renovator. There's no gender division involved; these are just simple living skills every self-sufficient adult is capable of learning.
Posted by MlleEmily on 2004-11-23 01:21:37
Post Subject:
This thread is really interesting... that post about embroidery reminded me of a funny exchange between a guy friend and me that happened a couple weeks ago...
Him: Oh, what're those little things you're sewing?
Me: Oh, they're yo-yo's, you cut little circles and then run the thread all around the edge, and pull it all tight and then you have this little scrunchie... yo-yo-ey thing, and you make like 400 of them and then sew THEM together into a bedcover or something.
Him: (looking over his glasses and fixing me with a serious look) Emily, that sounds like a craft designed to KEEP WOMEN DOWN.
I think the idea that being domestically minded is anti-feminist is as ridiculous as this new idea coming up that embracing the domestic arts is somehow actually pro-feminist... um, no. The patriarchy (if you believe in it; I do, with reservations) is neither helped nor hindered according to whether a bunch of us gals decide, oooh, societal-norms-be-damned!- we LIKE knitting!
Remember, these 'domestic arts' we're speaking of here are actually the fun stuff, the creative stuff. We're talking HOBBIES here, people, things we CHOOSE to do with our FREE TIME. Of course we love it and it feels fabulous to make stuff. Now, the vast majority of houseWORK, ie the non-fun, toilet-cleaning, laundry, boring grunt-work is still being done overwhelmingly by the women in families. I think that the continuance of the ladies getting lumped with the non-fun domestic stuff would benefit from further enquiry... but maybe that's for MY thesis.
Posted by sallysunshine on 2004-12-15 17:29:00
Post Subject:
Do you mean that women have a sense of solidarity, despite their different ideology, in crafting?
Not really.
To me, feminism is not just a set of beliefs: it's a movement, and the idea is to change things. And in order to change things, we're going to have to enlist the help of people who don't currently consider themselves feminists. Some of them already are feminists according to my understanding of feminism, but they may shy away from the term, in part because there's been a pretty effective anti-feminist smear campaing. They think that being a feminist means hating men or forgoing makeup or not pursuing fun hobbies or whatever. They think that feminism is about limiting their choices, rather than expanding them.
I think that we might be able to use our shared interest in traditionally-feminine crafts to reach out to some of those women. I've seen that with my mother. I think my mom is a feminist, but she's always rejected the label, because she thought (wrongly, I think) that feminists would judge and reject her life choices. But she's a quilter, and through meeting feminist and womanist quilters, she's begun to change her ideas about feminism.
So it's clear to me that my crafty sensibility is a bit different from your average scrapbooker's, although it's not so different from my mom's. But I still wonder if we could find common ground with non-feminist crafters and maybe put a human face on feminism for women who haven't seen feminists as their allies. I'm thinking that instead of concentrating on how to convince people that we're not like those other crafty types, in fact we might concentrate on convincing crafty types that in some ways we are like them. And in other ways, maybe we can bring them to believe that they might want to be more like us.
Posted by soapandwater on 2004-12-15 14:48:14
Post Subject:
The problem with many feminists is they think we have to become men
No, feminists do not believe that. That's a myth.
Taken from Merriam-Webster:
fem·i·nism
Pronunciation: 'fe-m&-"ni-z&m
Function: noun
1 : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes
2 : organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests
Honest question: is it really that important that crafty and/or domestic feminists differentiate ourselves from those retrograde, anti-feminist crafty and/or domestic women? What if we see our shared interests as a tool for solidarity or evangelism, rather than as a source of shame for us?
Do you mean that women have a sense of solidarity, despite their different ideology, in crafting?
If you mean that, I'd have to agree that to some degree that works, as long as people avoid the sensitive subjects. I could theoretically sit in a room with someone who thought feminism was stupid and outdated and have a wonderful conversation about home economics. As long as we stuck to that topic, it'd be fine.
I, however, cannot stick to one topic for an extended period of time. Even a topic I like a lot. And I'd probably end up saying something like, "Wow, I really enjoy this self-sufficiency I've done. I'm thinking about having a craft fundraiser on my campus to donate the money to NOW or something."
I can't even tell someone I'm taking a women and economics course without another girl saying, "Oh, God. I heard that class is just going to be a bunch of feminists yelling at each other." So, while I may be able to talk fashion/pop culture with this person, I can't feel as if I'll ever be respected in my search to blend the two worlds.
Meaning, I don't necessarily seek solidarity in all women. I have to feel supported in my goals, or the goals would seem sort of unattainable.
I'm not making sense, but then, I'm not sure I understood the question either.
