politics and its effect on friendship

[Katydid]

I think it comes down to: it depends on both people.

I think this because I'm currently IN the situaltion. There's a new girl at work who's nice (most of the time), around the same age as most of us there, very smart and good at her job. She's really interesting and pleasant to talk to - until anything topical comes up.

Then she turns into the right-wing battle queen. She will remember what you say and research it on the internet to try and prove you wrong (using conservative, biased web-sites) and then she basically berates you and beats you over the head with sketchy facts. Ugh.

She's also extremely judgemenal of any "outside her norm" behaviour - such as pre-marital sex (HA!) or feminism, or a woman's right to choose...

And everytime I think I'm really starting to like her and can look past it - she goes on another bender, and I just can't take it.

I'm sure I could pull it off with someone less "in my face", for lack of a better term, but she is just too much for me. I do have some republican freinds with whom I agree to disagree, but they gererally don't bombard me with "facts" from fox news.

Another interesting thing though - and I may be a jerk for thinking and or admitting this. I'm more leanient with MEN who are republicns - at least THEY get some benefits from it. I can't get my head around a woman supporting a party that thinks they are second class citizens.

I guess that makes me a sexist, huh?

[pudding]

I don't think that makes you sexist at all. :-)

I tend to think that people such as the girl you describe often have little life experience - it would be my guess that this girl is yet to find herself in a situation where her right to choose, or equality, becomes important to her.

[xuli]

This has been a really interesting discussion.

My first answer would be that it would be very difficult for me to be friends with people who have different political views than mine, because of what others have pointed out about how your political views reflect some of your most deeply-held values. But then I remembered Katie and Sarah and Marianna and Jenny -- people I've been friends with over the course of my life who have radically different views from my own. What brought these friendships together tended to be work. These were people I'd eat lunch with, and we'd occasionally go for a beer after work. I enjoyed working with them, looked forward to unwinding after a long day (or a long morning) with them, and we had similar senses of humor and watched a lot of the same TV shows and we all had cats. But were they deep abiding friendships that have kept me going through the years? Nope. Pretty much after those jobs ended, we quit hanging out. I look back with fondness on the time spent with them, but I don't really miss them. And I doubt they miss me.

Being from Georgia, I've also worked with and known a fair number of outright racists and homophobes, and I frankly can't even be going-out-for-drinks-after-work friends with people like that. It runs too deeply, and hurts too much.

One thing that bothers me a little about some of the comments on this thread is that there seems to be an assumption that if you aren't friends with people who disagree with you about all political issues, you aren't open to learning new things. So for me, a progressive, feminist, pro-gay rights, antiracist, socialist, etc., person, the only way to learn and grow is to make friends with Rick Santorum? I find that idea really absurd. I think that there is much more potential to learn from someone when you share their core values and disagree on nuances than there is to learn from people who have no common ground with you.

When you have no common ground, you're going to have the same argument over and over and over, and you're both going to get frustrated and you're constantly going to be starting over from square one. Or, at least, that's been my experience. On the other hand, I have socialist tendencies and my boyfriend is a pretty hardcore capitalist, and I think I've learned a great deal from him (and vice versa) because we share the same fundamental ideas about feminism, gay rights, racism, etc. Having that basis has enabled our conversations to happen on a deeper level than my conversations with, say, Pat Buchanan would. Same thing with my friends who are Kerry supporters -- as someone whose voting against Bush but not necessarily for Kerry (though of course I'm voting "for" Kerry), I've learned a lot from friends who really support Kerry.

I dunno. This is long. But my answer to the question of whether you can be friends with people who have very different beliefs is basically this: It depends on what you want out of the friendship, and how deeply the political differences run.
_________________
I'll be postfeminist in the postpatriarchy.

[anmeikitty]

This a really interesting topic. I don't think it's shallow to let politics affect friendships. I live my politics, they show what is important to me. I have to deal with racist, homophobes, who don't think women should have control over their own bodies yet think it's okay to go bomb civilians and start an unjust war. At school, at work, at the other end of the bar, wherever. Do I really want to be dealing with that shit in my free time or invite that into my home and social life? Hell no. I'm nice and respectful to the conservatives I have to deal with but I'm not exactly going to get really involved with them.

Luckily, all my friends are left-leaning. Sure some more than others, and we all have particular issues that makes us sway one way or the other. I'm actually kinda conservative about things like crime and welfare. But in general, I really couldn't be friends with someone who was pro-war, anti-choice, anti-environment, and anti-equal rights. These issues are way too important to me and I believe that people's stance on such things says alot about who they are as a person and what their values are. I don't have enough time to spend with all the really wonderful, wise, and compassionate friends I already have. So I definitely wouldn't squander it on someone who thinks war is a good idea or that I as woman should not have the same rights as a man (which includes the option of not a bearing child unless I really want to). These kind of beliefs personally offend me. Everyone has a right to believe what they want but we also all have the right to control who we allow into our lives (beyond a superficial co-worker, neighborhood, or classmate relationship) and don't need to defend our right to not be friends with someone (whether it's because they voted for bush, smell bad, talk nonstop...whatever the reason)!

This kinda an aside but it's one of my pet peeves when a person feels the need to make someone else feel bad about their relationship (or lack thereof) with another person. My sister rides my ass about how I don't keep in touch with some family members. Who I keep in touch with is between me and the person in question, no one else. Whether it's friendships or family relationships, no one should criticize you for your relationship with someone else. I don't why some people feel the need to be the friendship police.

[twilight]